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Today's interviewee is one that I am thrilled to be able to introduce. AJ Sass (he/they) is an absolutely amazing author and a wonderfully sweet person! I've read all three of AJ Sass's books and I've loved each and every one of them! Something about their writing and their characters just speaks perfectly to me.
In this interview we talked about whether they plan out their books or pants them, their favorite scene in Ellen Outside the Lines, and what he likes to do when he's not writing. As always link to purchase his books and follow them on social media will be included below! Hope you enjoy!
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What inspires the ideas for your books?
Usually, there's a question I want to explore through a fictional lens, sometimes an experience I had as a child that I feel the need to unpack. In Ana on the Edge, I imagined how a nonbinary ice skater might navigate their identity both on and off the ice. In Ellen Outside the Lines, I wanted to explore the ebbs and flows of middle school friendships through the eyes of an autistic kid.
I didn't know I was nonbinary or autistic when I was in middle school, so writing these stories allowed me to process some of my own experiences growing up. I choose to write contemporary (rather than 90s-era historical) novels because experiences like coming of age and learning to embrace who you are feel universal. It's my hope that my stories will resonate with what young readers are experiencing now in their lives.
I didn't know I was nonbinary or autistic when I was in middle school, so writing these stories allowed me to process some of my own experiences growing up. I choose to write contemporary (rather than 90s-era historical) novels because experiences like coming of age and learning to embrace who you are feel universal. It's my hope that my stories will resonate with what young readers are experiencing now in their lives.
That makes a lot of sense! It sounds very healing and/or beneficial to use writing to process some of your own experiences.
Do you tend to plan out your books in advance, just write and see where the stories lead you, or some combination of the two?
Do you tend to plan out your books in advance, just write and see where the stories lead you, or some combination of the two?
I used to completely fly by the seat of my pants through fanfic years ago when that was my main form of storytelling. That strategy has yet to work for me with a story I plan to traditionally publish.
For Ana on the Edge, I created a chapter-by-chapter outline and also wrote a one-page synopsis pretty early in the drafting process. All of my other books to date have sold on proposal (50 pages and a detailed outline), so I generally must plan things out and know where I'm going upfront. That said, my stories don't always stick to the outline after they've sold. Ellen Outside the Lines used to have more scavenger hunt clues than is in its final draft (they were also loosely linked to one another, which didn't end up working at all!). Then Just Shy Of Ordinary, my 2024 novel, required a complete rewrite after the first draft. While the heart of the story is the same from the original outline to its present form, so many things changed during revisions. I wrote handfuls of entirely new scenes and scrapped subplots until the story felt like the right one that I wanted to tell.
Which is just to say that I might be a plotter, but there's still a lot of unknowns as I enter the drafting process. There's also a lot of room for flexibility and creativity because sometimes your stories or characters take off in directions you didn't see coming when you initially outlined. I think that's pretty cool, personally.
For Ana on the Edge, I created a chapter-by-chapter outline and also wrote a one-page synopsis pretty early in the drafting process. All of my other books to date have sold on proposal (50 pages and a detailed outline), so I generally must plan things out and know where I'm going upfront. That said, my stories don't always stick to the outline after they've sold. Ellen Outside the Lines used to have more scavenger hunt clues than is in its final draft (they were also loosely linked to one another, which didn't end up working at all!). Then Just Shy Of Ordinary, my 2024 novel, required a complete rewrite after the first draft. While the heart of the story is the same from the original outline to its present form, so many things changed during revisions. I wrote handfuls of entirely new scenes and scrapped subplots until the story felt like the right one that I wanted to tell.
Which is just to say that I might be a plotter, but there's still a lot of unknowns as I enter the drafting process. There's also a lot of room for flexibility and creativity because sometimes your stories or characters take off in directions you didn't see coming when you initially outlined. I think that's pretty cool, personally.
Anytime someone mentions writing fanfic I'm immediately curious what fanfiction they used to write. That is pretty cool, that you don't quite know what to expect when you sit down to start writing even if you've already planned everything out! I'm also impressed by the planning you have done though, a chapter-by-chapter outline sounds helpful and possibly a little exhausting.
Which comes first for you: the characters or the plot?
Which comes first for you: the characters or the plot?
This is going to sound a little odd-and I'm pretty sure I've answered this question differently in other interviews-but neither. Usually, the setting comes to me before anything else, or at least around the same time that I start realizing what I want to write about, plot-wise. I think this may be because I love traveling and my family also moved around a lot when I was a kid. My co-author for Camp QUILTBAG, Nicole Melleby, was born, raised, and still lives on the Jersey shore, so she almost always sets her book there. It's her home.
I never really felt like I had a home in the strictest sense when I was younger, due to all the relocating. So when I start thinking about writing a new story, I often begin with where I want it to be set. I like to write about places I am familiar with, so Ana on the Edge takes place in the Bay Area, where I currently live. Ellen Outside the Lines is my Barcelona book, and Barcelona is a city I've traveled to often for both work and vacation. The characters in Ellen are visiting Barcelona from Georgia, the state in which I attended most of middle school. Camp QUILTBAG is set in the Minnesota Northwoods and I used my experiences of attending a summer camp in Brainerd, Minnesota to write descriptions for that story. Just Shy Of Ordinary takes place primarily in Minocqua, Wisconsin, also known as The Island City, a place I loved visiting with my family when we took trips up to my grandparents' cottage in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan in the summers.
Once I have a setting in mind, and usually after I have at least a vague sense of what I want to explore (e.g., a nonbinary athlete coming out in their sport, the ebbs and flows of middle school friendships, etc.), I like to ask myself how my setting might impact various aspects of my plot. For example, since many of the characters I write are queer, where they live might impact how comfortable they are with being out about who they are or even how other characters react to them. At that point, I start shaping individual characters, making decisions on how they feel about being openly queer or not yet out. This, in turn, helps me get an idea of their personality and how they might react to other aspects of my story's plot, the external factors that my characters will have to make decisions about that drive the story forward and shape their internal/emotional arcs.
I never really felt like I had a home in the strictest sense when I was younger, due to all the relocating. So when I start thinking about writing a new story, I often begin with where I want it to be set. I like to write about places I am familiar with, so Ana on the Edge takes place in the Bay Area, where I currently live. Ellen Outside the Lines is my Barcelona book, and Barcelona is a city I've traveled to often for both work and vacation. The characters in Ellen are visiting Barcelona from Georgia, the state in which I attended most of middle school. Camp QUILTBAG is set in the Minnesota Northwoods and I used my experiences of attending a summer camp in Brainerd, Minnesota to write descriptions for that story. Just Shy Of Ordinary takes place primarily in Minocqua, Wisconsin, also known as The Island City, a place I loved visiting with my family when we took trips up to my grandparents' cottage in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan in the summers.
Once I have a setting in mind, and usually after I have at least a vague sense of what I want to explore (e.g., a nonbinary athlete coming out in their sport, the ebbs and flows of middle school friendships, etc.), I like to ask myself how my setting might impact various aspects of my plot. For example, since many of the characters I write are queer, where they live might impact how comfortable they are with being out about who they are or even how other characters react to them. At that point, I start shaping individual characters, making decisions on how they feel about being openly queer or not yet out. This, in turn, helps me get an idea of their personality and how they might react to other aspects of my story's plot, the external factors that my characters will have to make decisions about that drive the story forward and shape their internal/emotional arcs.
Ooh, I really like that! I love the idea of the place coming first with the idea following after!
Do you have a set writing schedule or do you write whenever inspiration hits you?
Do you have a set writing schedule or do you write whenever inspiration hits you?
I don't have a super-strict writing schedule. When I'm on deadline for a project, I basically write every free moment. When I'm not on deadline, I try to keep my writing limited to business hours so I can have some semblance of a life outside my office.
I don't wait for inspiration to hit though, or else I'd never get anything done. Inspiration is a great thing to have, no question, but I've found that writing consistently is more helpful to my process (and productivity!). It gives me a routine to follow and ensures I am more consistently producing work than if I just sit around hoping for inspiration to strike.
That said, if I get stuck on something that feels crucial to figure out before I move on, I also don't have any qualms about stepping away from my laptop-even when I'm on deadline. In fact, after I get my edit letters, I usually don't immediately start revising. I try to take at least a few days to think about what was in the letter, to consider places my editor snagged on that need addressing, and to mull over ideas in my head that might fix aspects of my plot before diving in. And when it comes to drafting, I tend to keep a separate journal where I can write out any frustrations or roadblocks I encountered after a day of writing. I get them all out, then put them away for the night. More times than not, the problems that felt huge the night before are much more manageable and solvable by the time I wake up. First drafts are the most stressful part of the writing process for me, so I need to employ strategies like this to get myself to continue writing. They motivate me to keep pushing forward so I can get to the fun part-which for me happens to be revising and fine-tuning at the line level.
I don't wait for inspiration to hit though, or else I'd never get anything done. Inspiration is a great thing to have, no question, but I've found that writing consistently is more helpful to my process (and productivity!). It gives me a routine to follow and ensures I am more consistently producing work than if I just sit around hoping for inspiration to strike.
That said, if I get stuck on something that feels crucial to figure out before I move on, I also don't have any qualms about stepping away from my laptop-even when I'm on deadline. In fact, after I get my edit letters, I usually don't immediately start revising. I try to take at least a few days to think about what was in the letter, to consider places my editor snagged on that need addressing, and to mull over ideas in my head that might fix aspects of my plot before diving in. And when it comes to drafting, I tend to keep a separate journal where I can write out any frustrations or roadblocks I encountered after a day of writing. I get them all out, then put them away for the night. More times than not, the problems that felt huge the night before are much more manageable and solvable by the time I wake up. First drafts are the most stressful part of the writing process for me, so I need to employ strategies like this to get myself to continue writing. They motivate me to keep pushing forward so I can get to the fun part-which for me happens to be revising and fine-tuning at the line level.
Kudos to you for trying to keep writing to business hours! A balance is very important! I also really, really like how you handle the time after getting your edit letter. It's like you're sitting with it for a bit, getting some rest, and then figuring out how to tackle it all!
Ellen Outside the Lines holds a very special place in my heart so I really want to ask a question specific to that book. What is your favorite scene in that book?
Ellen Outside the Lines holds a very special place in my heart so I really want to ask a question specific to that book. What is your favorite scene in that book?
There are so many scenes I love in Ellen Outside the Lines, but one of my favorites takes place in chapter 24. Ellen and her classmates have been in Barcelona for a whole week at this point. In previous chapters, Ellen breaks away from her scavenger hunt team/new friends to hang out with her best friend, Laurel, even though what Laurel wants to do isn't something Ellen is interested in. Then, a sleepover Laurel and Ellen are supposed to have on their own ends up turning into one where Laurel invites her new friends over for a makeover. Things devolve from there. Later that evening, Ellen wakes up feeling upset about the events of the previous day and ends up going downstairs to this courtyard at her hotel where members of her scavenger hunt team are hanging out.
Ellen receives a lot of great support from her new friends during this moment. And then she returns to the hotel with Isa and goes up to Isa's room to remove her makeup and they have this really lovely conversation about identity and people's assumptions about kids who are different (whether queer, autistic, or in some other way). It was one of my favorite scenes to write, and I also really love to reread it.
Ellen receives a lot of great support from her new friends during this moment. And then she returns to the hotel with Isa and goes up to Isa's room to remove her makeup and they have this really lovely conversation about identity and people's assumptions about kids who are different (whether queer, autistic, or in some other way). It was one of my favorite scenes to write, and I also really love to reread it.
Ooh, yes!! That is such a great scene!!!
The book you wrote recently, Camp QUILTBAG, was co-written with Nicole Melleby. What was it like going from solo writing to writing a book with another person?
The book you wrote recently, Camp QUILTBAG, was co-written with Nicole Melleby. What was it like going from solo writing to writing a book with another person?
Co-writing Camp QUILTBAG was a lot of fun, and I personally feel that it was such a joyful experience because I was drafting this story with the right person whose writing style and thematic interests complement my own. That, and I've always really loved collaborative writing. Years ago, I used to do play-by-post RPGs online where one person would write a multi-paragraph post as their character, then another character would leap in and respond, and so on. I enjoyed the collaborative storytelling involved in RPGs so co-writing a novel felt very much like second nature to me.
Camp QUILTBAG was sold on proposal, so Nicole and I had to sit down and define elements of the plot well before we drafted it out. This helped keep us on track after the manuscript was acquired and it came time to complete the first draft (we also texted each other a lot, which helped us avoid hitting too many road blocks during every stage of the drafting and revision process).
So much of writing involves making your own decisions and drafting in isolation. I loved getting to step away from that for a little while and develop a book with a friend. Now that it's out in the world, promoting it has been just as joyful.
Camp QUILTBAG was sold on proposal, so Nicole and I had to sit down and define elements of the plot well before we drafted it out. This helped keep us on track after the manuscript was acquired and it came time to complete the first draft (we also texted each other a lot, which helped us avoid hitting too many road blocks during every stage of the drafting and revision process).
So much of writing involves making your own decisions and drafting in isolation. I loved getting to step away from that for a little while and develop a book with a friend. Now that it's out in the world, promoting it has been just as joyful.
The play-by-post RPGs sounds really interesting and sounds like it helped make you comfortable with co-writing a novel. It also sounds like the co-writing was a very good process for you! I definitely think texting each other sounds very helpful when doing something like this.
Is there a specific message(s) that you want readers to take away after reading your books?
Is there a specific message(s) that you want readers to take away after reading your books?
When I'm writing books, I don't have a message so much as a goal: I hope that by writing queer, neurodivergent, and Jewish characters into my stories, I'm offering some readers opportunities to see themselves within the pages of a book and other readers a chance to immerse themselves in the perspective of a character whose experiences might differ from their own. Reading allows kids to feel seen, and it also builds empathy. As a writer, that feels like a powerful thing, and I'm very honored I get to contribute my stories to the growing list of diverse titles getting published.
Less a message and more of a goal, but a very admirable one at that!
Are you currently working on any other books right now that you can talk about?
Are you currently working on any other books right now that you can talk about?
I mentioned Just Shy Of Ordinary above. That's my next middle grade book, which releases in early 2024. The story follows 13-year-old Shai (they/them), a nonbinary homeschooler who has been struggling to control their anxiety ever since their mom lost her job during the pandemic, requiring them to move in with family friends to help save money. Shai picks the hair on their arms to calm down, but it causes them a lot of stress and anxiety that they haven't been able to stop. Since their mom is still struggling to find consistent work, Shai takes it upon themself to research how to fix their problem and learns that sometimes creating a new routine, a "new normal," might help. So they decide to attend public school. But then their academic evaluation places them into ninth grade instead of eighth, they're not sure how or if they should come out as genderfluid to their classmates (and a new crush) in their small Wisconsin Northwoods town, and so on. It's a story that explores academic giftedness, acknowledging that you may appear successful in one part of your life while still struggling in others.
Then I have my debut picture book releasing in fall 2024. Shabbat Is... (illustrated by Noa Kelner) is about three kids from the same temple who all observe Shabbat differently. A favorite scene of mine centers around one of the kid's nonbinary cousin's b'nai mitzvah ceremony. I also contributed a short story to On All Other Nights, a Passover anthology edited by Chris Baron, Joshua S. Levy, and Naomi Milliner, set to release in spring 2024.
Then I have my debut picture book releasing in fall 2024. Shabbat Is... (illustrated by Noa Kelner) is about three kids from the same temple who all observe Shabbat differently. A favorite scene of mine centers around one of the kid's nonbinary cousin's b'nai mitzvah ceremony. I also contributed a short story to On All Other Nights, a Passover anthology edited by Chris Baron, Joshua S. Levy, and Naomi Milliner, set to release in spring 2024.
I am already 100% on board for Just Shy of Ordinary. Sign me up!! I'm pumped! Shai sounds amazing and I look forward to reading their book! The anthology and picture book also sound amazing and I'm definitely going to grab those from my library whenever they get them!
What do you like to do when you're not writing?
What do you like to do when you're not writing?
Figure skating, for one! I've been skating since I was a kid and have always loved the freedom that comes from executing a solid jump or spin. More and more now that I'm getting older, I find myself gravitating away from freestyle and toward ice dance. I passed the first of four Gold partnered ice dance tests earlier this year and I'm hoping to take another one soon. I've also recently taken up playing pickleball with friends, and I love every opportunity I get to travel and explore new places with my partner.
Yeah, I probably should've guessed figure skating! I love when you post videos on TikTok! I can't ice skate at all so it always looks super impressive to me! Congrats on passing the ice dance test and good luck on your future ones!!!! Traveling is amazing! I love it!
Thank you so very, very much to A.J. Sass for agreeing to do this interview! It was amazing and a bit of a dream come true! My thanks also to the readers who read this interview! If you've read one of A.J. Sass's books before, I'd love to hear your thoughts about them! Don't forget to check out one of his books from the library or buy them if you want to own a copy!
If you like what I do, consider giving me a follow on my social media or consider sharing or donating my GCLS GoFundMe. I appreciate any help or shares that I can get! Every little bit matters. Thank you for reading!!
Thank you so very, very much to A.J. Sass for agreeing to do this interview! It was amazing and a bit of a dream come true! My thanks also to the readers who read this interview! If you've read one of A.J. Sass's books before, I'd love to hear your thoughts about them! Don't forget to check out one of his books from the library or buy them if you want to own a copy!
If you like what I do, consider giving me a follow on my social media or consider sharing or donating my GCLS GoFundMe. I appreciate any help or shares that I can get! Every little bit matters. Thank you for reading!!
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You can find AJ Sass on their website, Instagram, TikTok, and Twitter.
You can buy AJ Sass's books from Mrs. Dalloway's if you want to support an independent bookstore! Otherwise, you can likely find them anywhere books are sold!
If you can't buy his books but you still want to read them, you can also consider requesting them to your local library or suggesting them on Overdrive!
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